WITH JOAN SOTKIN ***image1*** SFR: Hugh Prather called your new book Build Your Money Muscles 'Possibly the best book on money ever written.' That's some high praise.
JS:
I was pretty surprised when he said that. I've been online [
] for 10 years and I have 90,000 people on my mailing list but I don't hear from 90,000 people. I only hear from the occasional person and so I'm always surprised of the effect my work has on people.
Your book purports to have 'Nine Simple Exercises for Improving Your Relationship with Money.' Why nine as opposed to, say, 10?
From a marketing standpoint, they say it's better to use an odd number than an even number. But the first four exercises also set the stage and explain why you are where you are financially and the last five exercises are what to do about it. So nine worked out perfect.
It was a 12-step program (Debtors Anonymous) that helped you get your finances in check, right?
That was the first time I learned that there was a connection between emotions and money. I started going to DA in 1983 and I really saw my financial problems from a different point of view. It helped me understand why I was doing what I was doing with my money.
What role does emotion play in managing your finances?
Very few people sit down to balance their checkbook with no feelings. There's usually a gripping around the heart or a tightening in the stomach. There's very rarely a sense of satisfaction. So what we're talking about is feelings of dissatisfaction, deprivation, shame and anger. My theory is that you create your financial situation to act out feelings that are hidden deep within you that have nothing to do with money. Instead it has to do with your relationship with yourself and your environment.
How can understanding your money help you understand your emotions?
I help people see their financial patterns and how that relates to emotional themes in their life. By recognizing those feelings and shifting how you think and your emotional response to life, you can actually change your financial position. So you're not focusing on the money, you're focusing on how much positive energy is coming into your life.
Doesn't that toe a dangerous line of people equating money with happiness?
It depends on the person. Often when I ask clients what they want, they'll say they want enough money to feel free. They want to feel free and they think it's going to be, say, $2 million that's going to give them that freedom. But if you wind up with $2 million you're probably still going to feel the same way. You have to focus first on creating safety, satisfaction and comfort within yourself and then the money will be congruent with that.
Does that approach translate to somebody who is living hand-to-mouth?
When I came to Santa Fe nine years ago, I had $200 and whatever fit in my 1986 Thunderbird. So, from my point of view, you can be very poor and work your way up. It's really about who you're willing to be and if you're willing to step out of the role that your family of origin and peer group has put you in.
If I'm frivolous with credit cards, what does that say about my emotional state?
It's feelings of alienation, aloneness and deprivation that are fed by credit card debt. And of course who can fight the media? You have to be very strong not to eat sugar and not to be in debt. I haven't had sugar in 33 years.
Really? So what do you eat?
A lot of protein and vegetables.
You have more will power than I do.
No, I used to be a suicidal depressive and two days after I gave up sugar I wasn't depressed anymore. I tried a serving of rice once and after four hours I was hopelessly suicidal.
Before moving to Santa Fe, you ran a failed business called Joan's Crystals. What did you learn from that experience and is there a way to not go bankrupt selling rocks?
I learned so much. I had no previous business experience and in four years I went from living in a hovel and working out of my house to having this huge business with five people working for me and I had no idea how to handle it. Now, as this business is really expanding, I have some serious help.
We're getting into tax season. Is this like a holiday for you?
The clients' problems that I deal with are there year 'round. People who have tax problems have chronic tax problems. They use the IRS as a critical parent and if the agent you're working with is a male or female it usually relates to your mother or father. If you don't pay your taxes because you're angry, that's usually anger at your parents and the way they took care of you.
Have you filed your taxes yet?
Absolutely. I'm just waiting for my refund.
